In Defence of TheYamYam

Mark Blackstock, editor of TheYamYam, has contributed this reply to my earlier post about his website. JW

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Hey Jonathan. Thanks for commenting on the YamYam.

The simple reason why the YamYam sometimes scans stories from newspapers and posts them on its own website is because the stories are not to be found anywhere online.

This is often the case with the Express and Star, where many excellent stories about Walsall, of interest and importance to local people, appear in newsprint but never find their way onto the E&S website. Believe me, I would much prefer not to have to take the trouble and time to scan stories but simply link to the original content online - scans also look rather ugly.

I have raised this issue with the Walsall editor of the E&S. Unfortunately, it has been explained to me that publishing all of the E&S content online is beyond the capacity of the newspaper's small internet team. I suspect this is as frustrating for the Walsall journalists who write these stories as it is for me, and for you who may perceive this as ‘theft'.

A story scanned and published in the YamYam is always credited, it is always reproduced as an image file, the article is not OCRd and stored as text in a database. So unfortunately, it is not possible to provide a link to an original article if the article does not exist online in the first place.

Readers appreciate articles being scanned, not just for their news value but also for the record. Much of the value added by a site like the YamYam is it's attention to links. Obviously links to specialist websites are a useful resource for someone researching or wishing to find out more about a particular subject, company or institution etc. But a story published in newsprint can often be isolated and read out of context.

Historical links can add meaning and tell their own story on a subject. So scanning an article is also important historically for telling the full story in links for when the subject appears next time. This is of particular use to people and groups campaigning around local issues.

As for your reference to using RSS feeds in your previous comment, I do wish it was so simple. Unfortunately many newspaper RSS feeds are unreliable and I spend many hours in search engines hunting down and selecting content. And for the record, there are no computer automated feeds going into the YamYam website - it is all human activity.

Many of the headlines and intro paragraphs (not all) are rewritten, for reasons of space or clarity on the page design or RSS feed, since what makes sense on a printed page often doesn't translate into a different web context.

As a former newspaper man of many years, I am saddened by the decline of newspaper readership and circulation - but I don't simply blame the internet for that. I am also saddened by the regional and local press's failure to embrace the internet and develop viable websites and online business plans which can monetise their content. And also for the record, as a general rule, I attempt to only link to the BBC as a last resort and give preference to local (or national) online newsprint sources or reliable bloggers - but I acknowledge that does not always happen.

In the absence of a daily newspaper for Walsall, the YamYam seeks to collate and aggregate from numerous sources as much daily news about Walsall as possible for its readers to easily navigate and read in one place - or select from an RSS or Twitter feed.

As the website builds I do hope to provide more original content but presently this is restricted to a few news and comment pieces on important issues which haven't been covered elsewhere, particularly on issues where decisions by Walsall institutions go unchallenged or ignored by the Birmingham and Wolverhampton press which dominate our part of the West Midlands.

So in conclusion, the YamYam does not attempt to monopolise or steal anyone's content but rather work alongside other media producers by sending readers off to the original source, be it a major media publisher or a local blogger, where it is up to that website to serve advertisements and run other income generating activities.

Mark Blackstock
Publisher, The YamYam

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Comments (13)

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written by Jonathan Walker, August 10, 2009

Thank you, Mark.

As I said privately, I appreciate you making such a civilised response to what was a rather bad-tempered post!

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written by Eddie McTeddy, August 10, 2009

Fair play to Mark for defending himself on this one (even if I don't necessarily agree with what he's doing). After all, show me a news outlet that hasn't 'borrowed' information from elsewhere and I'll show you a liar.

The other thing is that at least Mark credits it (although perhaps not as much as he should?). Surely it's better he does that than does what so many other sites do and just copy it verbatim (are you watching football fan sites?)?

Is the answer not that some sort of middle ground be struck between big publishers and the smaller sites like The Yam Yam - perhaps some sort of either contra or profit share agreement where both sides would feel a benefit? Newspapers who are struggling to monetise digital should be joining the new wave rather than building up walls to try and stop them.

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written by Mark Blackstock, August 10, 2009

Thanks for the right of reply Jon.

I think that Eddie McTeddy has a fair point about some sort of contra scheme for aggregation sites. Of course the YamYam is in it's infancy and does not yet have sufficient traffic to attract significant advertising and revenue but, hopefully, someday it will. However, when websites like the YamYam do start to become viable online businesses I think that there could possibly be some sort of subscription scheme worked out for the industry - a bit like how the music industry does it. Perhaps Google could lead the way (sic)?

As for crediting news sources Eddie, look at the YamYam, there are credits and links all over the place.

Off now to scan a few more newsprint stories that have been missed by the regional press websites - sigh!

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written by Karl, August 11, 2009

Fair play to Mark.

I for one follow the TheYamYam on twitter and love to read the bits not on E&S etc.

I agree with others there is ALLWAYS with out fail links to sources. This can only be a good thing, I know i gone out and got the paper then based on the link from theYamYam , without it I would not have paid for the paper.

If the papers cannot provide us with more internet content, they sould pay TheYamYam for promoting them.

Keep up the good work.

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written by Anja, August 11, 2009

The same here with me too, I also follow TheYamYam on twitter and like reading stories I don't find online.
I don't buy any newspapers and only read stuff online, so I'm quite happy with what Mark is doing.

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written by Stuart Williams, August 11, 2009

I've taken the reverse route here and read Mark's response then read Jonathan's original post. I can see both points of view here, albeit I think JW's post is a little over-the-top.

The Yam Yam provides a valuable service to Walsall and district, free of charge. As a local resident and "citizen journalist" I find it extremely useful to be able to track down local stories without having to trawl through often poorly-designed websites which are mostly not about the place I live in.

The fact that The Yam Yam mostly leads me to those stories on the originating newspapers' own websites I consider to be an equally valuable service to those newspapers, whose online advertising I would otherwise not see. In fact The Yam Yam clearly benefits those papers by increasing their own traffic.

That doesn't mean I don't read the local papers "in the real world" - I do, albeit I can no longer read the Walsall Observer because its owners have recently thrown away 150 years of heritage and goodwill like so much chip paper by closing it down.

And while I wouldn't personally post scans from the E&S myself, I can see why it's done. The E&S is a regional paper and its website is very limited in its local content. Important local stories are often missed out as a result, while trivia may be published in their place. If newspapers want people to read their websites then they should provide adequate content. Otherwise there is no point in visiting them.

Personally I'm not convinced that paid-for news websites are the thing of the future, certainly from a local perspective. I would rather support local newspapers in hard copy; they offer more and can be recycle afterward, unlike stray electrons sleeting through copper cable. But The Yam Yam is a useful and time-saving tool for when I am in a hurry, and for that it has become daily reading for me.

I also support The Yam Yam's initiative in offering a more provocative and less deferential perspective on the local news in Mark's occasional comment pieces. Certainly he seems prepared to put the honest truth before advertising revenue, something that local papers are not always known for. This again is a valuable service to the town.

If The Yam Yam can make it easier for me to find the info I want, more power to it's elbow, say I. I know Mark goes to a lot of trouble to ensure the papers get credit and suitable links, as he should do. If the papers themselves are not happy about how this is occasionally done, then maybe they should rethink their online strategy, make more local content available and realise that they can only benefit from business being sent their way by The Yam Yam. In that way, they are complementary, not competitive.

Stuart Williams
The Bloxidge Tallygraph

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written by Eddie McTeddy, August 11, 2009

That doesn't mean I don't read the local papers "in the real world" - I do, albeit I can no longer read the Walsall Observer because its owners have recently thrown away 150 years of heritage and goodwill like so much chip paper by closing it down.

And who are the owners responsible for doing this...None other than Trinity Mirror, owners of BPM, employers of Mr Walker. At least they won't have to worry about TheYamYam nicking their stuff now...

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written by dinkey, August 11, 2009

Got to hand it to the YamYam which does a great service for people living in Walsall. The 'Birmingham and Wolverhampton press' as Mark puts it, provide a fairly lousy service for the other parts of the region. The YamYam takes what they offer and bolsters it with local blogs, fanzines and stuff from the national newspapers - the linking is often very clever and relevant.

I both buy newspapers and read online. I find news more immediate online and it is often history by the time it reaches print. However, I prefer to read a long comment or opinion piece in a newspaper, it is more comfortable, easier on the eyes and an all-together more enjoyable experience.

Having a few articles scanned for the record if they are not available online is particularly useful when your looking for something after the newspaper has become a chip wrapper - where else could it be found?

With a bit of imagination Trinity Mirror could easily have bolstered the Walsall Observer by cross-pollinating content from it's other newsprint titles, so increasing readership and attracting more advertising. It could even have taken the radical step of updating the Observer's website which was consistently a couple of weeks out-of-date.

There's also a debate starting about this on BrownhillsBob's website for those of you interested

"When you're savaged by a dead duck"

http://brownhillsbob.wordpress.com/2009/08/11/when-youre-savaged-by-a-dead-duck/

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written by Jonathan Walker, August 11, 2009

I said at the top that my original post was bad-tempered, and I think Stuart is right that over the top would also be a fair description.

But at least it has led to some debate and I'm grateful for all the comments.

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written by Lee Jordan, August 12, 2009

Traditional newsprint has to accept and embrace digital content delivery and find a way of making an operating profit, that is the bare minimum needed to publish. Gone are the days when you can make money without providing anything of value, that's one of the things about the web I really like, it makes you a better organisation when you realise you have to be relevant to people. And it's value given to the reader that'll secure the future of local print media.

I imagine I'm not alone in my peer group when I say I do not buy newspapers, I never really have being under 30 I'm one of the first digital natives. My traffic reports if they aren't overlaid on a mapping service, rarely exist, stories that aren't in my RSS reader, will pass me by, but when they are in my RSS I can share them with my friends thus increasing readership and subscription. We don't subscribe to local newspapers, we buy them on the off chance, a point worth bearing in mind.

It all basically means that the Express and Star aren't loosing my custom, because well they never had it in the first place, if you see where I'm coming from. Without the YamYam I wouldn't even know about the Express and Star's content or any new stories that aren't on the website and there have been a few stories where I've only known about them because they have been online.

Therefore I don't see any theft, but rather a new aggregation channel to new markets and new readerships and audiences to build awareness of a brand, such as the Express and Star. You never know, get enough stories scanned in on the YamYam and I may buy a newspaper.

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written by Lee Jordan, August 12, 2009

I also can't type my thoughts on a story into a newspaper. Hmmmmmm

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written by Jayne Howarth, August 14, 2009

I think the points have been covered very well on here, but I wanted to add my support for the YamYam.

As a former print newspaper journalist, I have found the leap from "old fashioned" thinking about consuming content to embracing the brave new world quite challenging.

However, I was intrigued by what the YamYam was doing when I first came across it. My old newspaper head did start getting exercised about it taking content (the word "theft" might have crept in my mind at one point)from other sources, but as I stuck with it and learned about aggregation and become more web savvy, I can see absolutely that it is extraordinarily valuable.

There is no daily newspaper for Walsall and the Express and Star does what it can, but YamYam's approach ensures that we can get all the best stories from the town and view them easily online (and - most importantly - see where the stories originated).

As far as I'm concerned it is a great service and I particularly welcome the fact that previous articles about a story are listed underneath, so you an easily get a flavour of how a story has developed.

Things move on and the media industry has changed at such a breakneck speed over the past few years that it sometimes takes consumers of news a while to catch up.

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written by Jonathan Walker, August 14, 2009

Jayne, nice to hear from you and thank you very much for commenting. I take your points on board, particularly, as you and Mark have pointed out, that there is nothing else like it for Walsall.

I want to stress one thing, which is that I have never criticised aggregators. What I said originally about the YamYam was:

What do I think of it? I think it's a good idea, and mainstream media organisations shouldn't be afraid of aggregating content - providing links to stories by competitors - either.

That post is still here on this blog along with all the rest.

What I did criticise, in a later post, was scanning in entire stories and resposting them. I explained why in my earlier post and Mark has explained his side here so I won't repeat my arguments again, but that is what I criticised.

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